Proton Charge Viewer

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Proton Charge Viewer

Post by Nevyn on Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:46 am

Recent discussions have led me into another little app where I show how charge is emitted from a proton radially and how that charge has a spin of its own. This leads to different forces felt by a particle hitting it from the top, bottom or side.

This is just a basic outcome of spin, however, in Miles framework, there are so many spins going on that it is difficult to keep up with them at times. This little app helps you to visualise what is going on at this level so that you can apply it in other problems. It also helps to clarify my atomic modeling app, which can give the impression that the colored discs around the protons are solid structures. They are just a representation of the protons charge field (it is best to make them transparent to remind yourself of this).

This version of the app does not have any controls to let you play with anything. It is really just an animation at this point but I will add some soon. I am thinking of placing arrows to show the potential forces created by the charge but I don't think there will be much else to change. It really is just a little demonstration.

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Re: Proton Charge Viewer

Post by Nevyn on Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:35 pm

I have added a second version of this app (not a new version, same one with different parameters) that shows 2 protons where 1 is an anti-proton. I plan to add the ability to add as many protons as you want to through the interface but I wanted to get the demo up there since it was directly mentioned in the discussions. It was much easier for me to add them in the code than to add the controls to do it.

It is worth mentioning that my first attempt at making the anti-proton was to just flip it over. Rotate it 180deg about the X or Z axis but this did not work. The anti-proton is not just an up-side-down proton. It is a different set of spins that causes the emitted charge to be up-side-down with respect to a protons charge.
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Version 0.2

Post by Nevyn on Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:50 am

I have made some changes to this app such as some controls to change settings and the ability to add and remove protons. Since you can now add as many protons as you like, I have removed the second copy of this app.

When you add new protons, every even numbered proton is an anti-proton and will emit anti-charge. It would be nice to be able to set each proton to whatever you want to but I don't think it is worth the effort for this app. It adds new protons on top of the existing ones so it is also a bit backwards in the sense that the bottom proton would be an anti-proton according to Miles. However, this is not important since the app is designed to show you the charge spin differences.
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Re: Proton Charge Viewer

Post by LongtimeAirman on Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:13 pm

Nevyn, Impatience got the better of me and I checked it out.  

Very nice science applications page; crisp and professional. I would suggest a mission statement, along the line of “My Views of the Charge Field”.

AV 0.5. The “top side clipping” is gone. The Viewpoint is correspondingly improved. I could also, first time, change depth to view individual orbiting electrons. Finally seeing the Meta-Data – and turning it off! Pegging my bias meter. At some time in the future, I expect you to be able to integrate your proton model into the atomic viewer.  When you zoom in sufficiently, the scale background changes, and the proton model appears, correctly sized and positioned from that viewpoint. Like in 100,000 Suns, only better. But you know that.

PS 0.3. Again, first success at depth changing. Hallelujah. Not being able to see all the top scale spins was a real hindrance. I will return.

PV 0.2. That’s what I wanted to talk about.

These models are invaluable, as they enable immediate appreciation of the subject matter. I went in several tangents. Back to the single proton. Based on your model, I have a somewhat different view. For your consideration,


(I did a quick merge of two images – I don’t think the center should be entirely red or blue, and the emitted strings shouldn't be exclusively red or blue or aligned).

I’ve always been the devil’s advocate, even with myself. Let’s say there is no simple matter, or an anti-matter proton. The only thing that determines whether a proton would be called matter or anti-matter is its “bias” in recycling efficiency of matter and anti-matter charges. That bias changes over time to reflect its ambient incoming charge conditions.
 
Looking at your model enabled me to envision a charge emitting “texture” on the proton surface, extending to higher latitudes, … . There needs to be incoming charge… . More later.
Nevyn wrote:It is worth mentioning that my first attempt at making the anti-proton was to just flip it over. Rotate it 180deg about the X or Z axis but this did not work. The anti-proton is not just an up-side-down proton. It is a different set of spins that causes the emitted charge to be up-side-down with respect to a protons charge.
That’s provocative, and needs some discussion, as I am currently in favor of “ambiguous” protons. Alternating strings (where the velocity is along the string axis) of photons and anti-photons makes less sense to me than sheets (spins "parallel" and in a cog-like mesh) to the proton surface) of alternating photons. There wouldn't be "strings" of exclusively red or blue or even any strings at all. Photons emitted from the same apparent spot should be on slightly different radials, that is, until a better understanding of the emitting "surface" comes along.

My compliments.

Post Script. The alternating cogs idea disintegrated in my mind. The division of polarities may be due to north and sound proton hemispheres, even though the two are packed near the equator. I'm enjoying thinking about various possibilities.

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Re: Proton Charge Viewer

Post by Nevyn on Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:30 am

LongtimeAirman wrote:Nevyn, Impatience got the better of me and I checked it out.  

Very nice science applications page; crisp and professional. I would suggest a mission statement, along the line of “My Views of the Charge Field”.

I've been thinking the same thing I just haven't come up with anything worth putting on there, but I haven't put any time into it either. Right now, it is just there as a portal to the applications but I foresee it becoming a bit bigger than it currently is with more depth to the hierarchy as new apps are developed. I want a suite of little apps like this Proton Charge Viewer that just show the low level concepts Miles talks about all the time in a very simple, direct mannor. They will often not actually show the exact motions but give you the idea of what is going on. Then there are the bigger apps like the Atomic Model Editor and Solar System Viewer. It will grow as it needs to.

LongtimeAirman wrote:AV 0.5. The “top side clipping” is gone. The Viewpoint is correspondingly improved. I could also, first time, change depth to view individual orbiting electrons. Finally seeing the Meta-Data – and turning it off! Pegging my bias meter. At some time in the future, I expect you to be able to integrate your proton model into the atomic viewer.  When you zoom in sufficiently, the scale background changes, and the proton model appears, correctly sized and positioned from that viewpoint. Like in 100,000 Suns, only better. But you know that.

I'm not sure why that clipping issue is fixed, ahh, I mean, yes, I did that! Seriously, I didn't do anything that I am aware of. I might have cleaned up some code and accidentally fixed it.

In the beginning of Atomic Viewer, I had the idea of using shaders to generate a little charge field for each proton. You would actually see the charge photons coming out of the protons shell and move away from it until some given distance where they would disappear (actually, they would be re-used by moving them back to the proton and giving them a new velocity vector). I am still interested to see what I can develop with a shader but I am not so sure I will incorporate it into AV. Actually, I probably will if I can because I just remembered how I did that in my desktop version and it does look pretty good seeing all that charge flying around. Since I will use shaders this time, it should perform a lot better where as my desktop version was all CPU calculations and given the number of charge photons (you could adjust the density) it could overwhelm the system with large models. Did you ever see any of the videos I created from the desktop version where it showed the charge photons? I think I posted some of them at some point. So if I do add this functionality in, it will be a setting that you can turn on/off rather than a zoom in far enough to see it kind of thing. I don't want to rob people of the chance to see all that charge coming from all over the atom.

LongtimeAirman wrote:PS 0.3. Again, first success at depth changing. Hallelujah. Not being able to see all the top scale spins was a real hindrance. I will return.

PV 0.2. That’s what I wanted to talk about.

These models are invaluable, as they enable immediate appreciation of the subject matter. I went in several tangents. Back to the single proton. Based on your model, I have a somewhat different view. For your consideration,


(I did a quick merge of two images – I don’t think the center should be entirely red or blue, and the emitted strings shouldn't be exclusively red or blue or aligned).

I’ve always been the devil’s advocate, even with myself. Let’s say there is no simple matter, or an anti-matter proton. The only thing that determines whether a proton would be called matter or anti-matter is its “bias” in recycling efficiency of matter and anti-matter charges. That bias changes over time to reflect its ambient incoming charge conditions.
 
Looking at your model enabled me to envision a charge emitting “texture” on the proton surface, extending to higher latitudes, … . There needs to be incoming charge… . More later.

Given the rest of your post, I think you have come to this conclusion yourself, but I want to be clear so I will pick this image merge apart.

The quick answer is, that image is not valid. What determines whether a proton is normal or anti is its spins. Not the ambient field. The stacked spins on the proton work in such a way that the charge emitted by that proton is spinning CW or CCW. I believe this is because when the proton hits the incoming charge photon, it imparts some of its spin to it and this results in a collective CW or CCW spinning charge emission. Another possibility is that the proton does not really impart spin to the charge photon, only linear velocity (which keeps it moving at c), but it may re-orient that charge photon in the process. This leads into some recent discussions about particles traveling along the axis of their top level spin which I am assuming is true here. Anyway, the main point is that the proton can only be normal or anti, never a mix of the two.

Now, the ambient field can affect the spins of that proton so given enough time and enough charge with a consistent spin, it will eventually strip the proton of some of its spin(s) and that proton may eventually be turned into the opposite type of proton. I find it hard to believe that the ambient field has the power to do that. A charge stream (such as that coming out of, or through, an atom) may have that kind of power but I don't think the ambient field is coherent enough for it (it would require some sort of spin coherence over a long time span (for a photon)).

LongtimeAirman wrote:
Nevyn wrote:It is worth mentioning that my first attempt at making the anti-proton was to just flip it over. Rotate it 180deg about the X or Z axis but this did not work. The anti-proton is not just an up-side-down proton. It is a different set of spins that causes the emitted charge to be up-side-down with respect to a protons charge.
That’s provocative, and needs some discussion, as I am currently in favor of “ambiguous” protons. Alternating strings (where the velocity is along the string axis) of photons and anti-photons makes less sense to me than sheets (spins "parallel" and in a cog-like mesh) to the proton surface) of alternating photons. There wouldn't be "strings" of exclusively red or blue or even any strings at all. Photons emitted from the same apparent spot should be on slightly different radials, that is, until a better understanding of the emitting "surface" comes along.

My compliments.

Post Script. The alternating cogs idea disintegrated in my mind. The division of polarities may be due to north and sound proton hemispheres, even though the two are packed near the equator. I'm enjoying thinking about various possibilities.

This app is a highly simplified view of a proton and its charge. The vectors pointing out from the protons surface are not meant to be taken literally, but close to it. They are there to show the general emission direction which is out from the equator. The actual emission of a proton could come from any point on the equator and anywhere +/- 30deg north and south of the equator (30 deg comes from the earths emission and seems a bit high for a proton to me, but I don't really know either way). It would just be confusing if I showed all of that though. Similarly, the charge does not flow out in a line as it does in this app but would be in random directions anywhere in the previously mentioned region. A single photon would travel straight out in a line, but multiple photons would not travel in the same line except by accident.

This app is designed to show how charge is moving radially out from the proton in all directions and the differences in the emitted charges spin, CW vs CCW. In order to show that effectively, I have created static vectors and only shown charge that is on those vectors. Since we are comparing the charge photons it is easiest if they are moving along consistent trajectories. I need some words around this app to explain a lot of that before I release it to the world.

Great to hear how these apps are getting you thinking. It might be a good time to go over some of Miles older papers where he talks about this stuff and see if it helps you to understand more of them. I know it has for me.
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