Hydrocarbons - Arenes

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Nevyn on Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:05 pm

Arenes do not have a general formula as they are loosely based on a ring structure with other attached elements or molecules.

You can find background information on Arenes in this wiki page.

Most Arenes are based on a Benzene ring. Some non-benzene based Arenes, called Heteroarenes, replace at least 1 Carbon atom with another element such as Oxygen, Nitrogen or Sulfur.
avatar
Nevyn
Admin

Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile http://www.nevyns-lab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Nevyn on Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:08 pm

This is a Benzene molecule showing the general structure, or at least the structure of its base molecule, of most Arenes.

Benzene - C6H6



The main difference between Arenes and Cycloalkanes is the orientation of the linking protons in the Carbon ring. As the Cycloalkanes have 2 Hydrogen atoms attached to each link, they are orientated along the X axis (left (-ve) to right (+ve) in these models), that is, the linking protons emit charge in the XY plane allowing the Carbon core to rotate around the link quite easily. Arenes, on the other hand, only have 1 Hydrogen atom bonded to the link so I have orientated the linking protons in the YZ plane (the Y axis is down (-ve) to up (+ve) and the Z axis is inside the screen (-ve) to outside the screen (+ve)). This orientation only allows 1 Hydrogen atom to bond here as the other side is inside the ring.
avatar
Nevyn
Admin

Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile http://www.nevyns-lab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Nevyn on Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:09 pm

Benzene is often reduced to a pre-cursor to other molecules by removing one of the Hydrogen atoms from the ring. The resultant molecule is called a Phenyl Group with the formula C6H5.

Phenyl Group - C6H5



The top link in the Phenyl Group, which is missing its Hydrogen atom, allows other atoms and molecules to attach themselves to the ring to create new molecules.
avatar
Nevyn
Admin

Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile http://www.nevyns-lab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Nevyn on Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:10 pm

We can create Phenol by attaching an Hydroxide molecule the a Phenyl Group.

Phenol - C6H5OH

avatar
Nevyn
Admin

Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile http://www.nevyns-lab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Nevyn on Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:11 pm

We get Aniline by attaching an NH2 molecule.

Aniline - C6H5NH2

avatar
Nevyn
Admin

Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile http://www.nevyns-lab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Nevyn on Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:12 pm

Attach CH3 to create Toluene.

Toluene - C6H5CH3

avatar
Nevyn
Admin

Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile http://www.nevyns-lab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Nevyn on Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:15 pm

Using NO2 we can create Nitrobenzene.

Nitrobenzene - C6H5NO2

avatar
Nevyn
Admin

Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile http://www.nevyns-lab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Nevyn on Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:36 pm

You can clearly see the Phenyl Group base structure and the different elements and molecules attached to it to form these molecules. It is even possible for 2 Phenyl Groups to attach to each other and form Biphenyl.



It is a bit hard to see this molecule within a single image since it is 3-dimensional so here is an animation of it.



This molecule bonds via the linking protons which is different to all of the previous molecules. This is possible with Biphenyl because the ring structure causes a charge build-up in the center of the ring and this bond allows that charge to be shared between the 2 rings creating a cross-stream of charge that holds the 4 protons together like an alpha stack.


Last edited by Nevyn on Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fixed GIF URL)
avatar
Nevyn
Admin

Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile http://www.nevyns-lab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Nevyn on Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:37 pm

In some cases we have more than 1 molecule attached to the Benzene ring. An interesting case is Xylene which can have 3 forms called p-Xylene, m-Xylene and o-Xylene. Each Xylene molecule has a Benzene ring with 2 attached CH2 molecules (or you could look at it as the Benzene ring missing 2 Hydrogen atoms and having 2 attached CH3 molecules).


Last edited by Nevyn on Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added subscripts)
avatar
Nevyn
Admin

Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile http://www.nevyns-lab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Nevyn on Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:38 pm

p-Xylene

avatar
Nevyn
Admin

Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile http://www.nevyns-lab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Nevyn on Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:38 pm

m-Xylene

avatar
Nevyn
Admin

Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile http://www.nevyns-lab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Nevyn on Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:39 pm

o-Xylene

avatar
Nevyn
Admin

Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile http://www.nevyns-lab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Nevyn on Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:40 pm

It is possible for 2 or more Benzene rings to attach to each other. This differs from the Biphenyl molecule above as the Hydrogen atoms are used in the bond whereas Biphenyl removed them.

Napthalene - (C6H6)2

avatar
Nevyn
Admin

Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile http://www.nevyns-lab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Nevyn on Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:40 pm

Anthracene - (C6H6)3

avatar
Nevyn
Admin

Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile http://www.nevyns-lab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Cr6 on Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:13 am

Nicely done!

Cr6
Admin

Posts : 689
Join date : 2014-08-09

View user profile http://milesmathis.the-talk.net

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Jared Magneson on Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:42 pm

Splendid work, once more. Really easy to visualize in this manner, especially your rotating animation.

Jared Magneson

Posts : 240
Join date : 2016-10-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by LloydK on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:31 am

I like it too, but you have all the disks (protons) standing vertically, as on a table top (not counting the animated biphenyl), but to me it seems to make more sense for the pairs between each stack of 4 disks to be horizontal parallel to the table top, because otherwise the outer disk of the pair has to distort and make itself wider to fit.

The hydrogens would then be perpendicular to the ring, like table legs. Is that not allowed? And the biphenyl would be more contorted too. Possible?

LloydK

Posts : 443
Join date : 2014-08-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Nevyn on Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:20 pm

I'm not sure what you mean, Lloyd. These are rings so the carbons must distort to form the ring. Are you talking about the red quads, the double protons or the single protons? Each Carbon atom has a central 4-stack of protons (red) and a single proton on each end. These single protons join into double protons when the Carbons join together. This leaves the Hydrogens sticking out from that double proton bond point pushing charge through it to keep the Carbons together. The Hydrogens must be easily replaced by other molecules and atoms so they can't be parallel to the double protons.

Unless you mean to just rotate the complete molecule so that all protons point upwards (like one of the Phenyls in Bi-phenyl when one is vertical and the other is horizontal). Yes, that is possible but you wouldn't see much in the image that way.
avatar
Nevyn
Admin

Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile http://www.nevyns-lab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Nevyn on Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:00 pm

Ok. After a re-read, I saw what you mean. If the double protons were rotated 90° then they wouldn't be distorted (and it would have been a hell-of-a-lot easier for me to build them, those angles took me ages to get right). Yes, some configurations could work that way but I don't think these particular ones do. Have a look at Napthalene or Anthracene where the rings bond together. That would not be possible with a rotated double proton. It also wouldn't allow Bi-phenyl to bond the way I have modeled it and since all of these molecules are based on Phenyl, then none of them can work that way. Also, there would be no reason for only a single Hydrogen at each Carbon-to-Carbon bond location. You could have a Hydrogen on each side. Have a look at the Cycloalkanes for an example of what you describe.
avatar
Nevyn
Admin

Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile http://www.nevyns-lab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by LloydK on Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:39 am

Got back a bit late. Anyway, I don't think protons are really disk-shaped, unless it's by my earlier model. The disks are really photons that are shooting out. They're not part of the protons themselves.

LloydK

Posts : 443
Join date : 2014-08-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by Nevyn on Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:57 pm

Yes, that's correct. The discs are meant to represent the charge field of the proton. That is why I put a red sphere in the middle of each proton which shows the volume of space its BPhoton moves around in. That volume is what SpinSim shows you and Atomic Viewer just treats it as a sphere because it wants to look at higher relationships. When talking about atoms and molecules though, the protons charge field is very important and we can think of them being the one thing while still remembering that they are technically separate.

Look at it this way, imagine you are a soldier storming a beach and there are gun placements that you must get to and clear/destroy. Does it matter that the bullets flying from those gun placements are not part of that building? No, they are something that you must overcome in order to fulfill your mission. So in this way, they can be thought of as part of it.

Another, more technical, way of looking at it is that a key property of a proton is that it is charged. If you separate those charge photons from the proton itself, then it is not charged. It is just a spinning BPhoton just like any photon. So that charge, while separate from the BPhoton that spins to create a proton, is not really separate from the concept of a proton because we take the effects of the proton as being the proton itself.

It is often useful to treat something as a whole even if we know that it is not. When you have a problem with your car it doesn't help to think of it in terms of protons, neutrons and electrons even though that is what it is. You choose how you want to group things together based on the scale you are looking at. When discussing quantum particles then it is good to separate the proton from its charge but when looking at atoms and molecules, it doesn't really help but should still be remembered since it can help explain some things.

Finally, if you want to, you can tell Atomic Viewer to hide the discs and to show the charge photons to get a more accurate picture of what is happening. Although I should point out that these pictures don't come from the Atomic Viewer that you guys have seen on the web. They come from the previous incarnation that was/is a desktop application but that version can also hide the discs and show the charge photons.


Last edited by Nevyn on Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:40 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
avatar
Nevyn
Admin

Posts : 821
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile http://www.nevyns-lab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Hydrocarbons - Arenes

Post by LongtimeAirman on Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:59 pm

.
In support of including the proton emission disc in sight and mind.

Quoting the end of Solid Light? NO http://milesmathis.com/solidlight.pdf

*As usual, there are no real pulls in my physics, but the field densities here create potentials that give us the Appearance of pulls. Again, it helps to think of the protons as fans that blow photons in certain directions. Just as fans seem to pull wind as well as push it, so do the spinning protons and alphas.
.

LongtimeAirman
Admin

Posts : 617
Join date : 2014-08-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum