Conciousness

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Conciousness

Post by LloydK on Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:03 am

This came from the Gravity, Mass, Expansion discussion.

Re: Gravity, Mass, Expansion
_Post by LloydK on Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:27 am
_The hologram model isn't actually the trump. It just leans in the direction of the trump. The trump is consciousness, which seems to be connected to the "everything is motion" idea. Everything is known only through consciousness and it's possible that nothing exists outside of consciousness. In which case motion and photons may exist as "units" of consciousness. That might solve the problem of origin of photons and the "energy" needed for "expansion" etc. Expansion would just be an illusion.

_Post by Nevyn on Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:58 am
_I don't think that helps. Everything would be an illusion in such a model, not just expansion. Even if that is true, and everything is just an experience (by whom? God?), there is still a common framework we all exist in. I am typing this and you will read exactly what I type. You may not interpret it the same way I meant it but you read the same words. If someone throws a rock at you, it will hit you and you will feel it (whether you saw it coming or not). We still have to explain that common framework.
_It doesn't solve any problems like the origin of photons or energy, it just pushes them back into a hole we know very little about which Miles often refers to as a data hole. Now, I can say the same thing about expansion, or any model at the fundamental level, as I can't explain the impetus to expansion. However, I prefer one, or maybe a few, simple unknowns to just making everything unknown.
_You also have to explain consciousness without using anything in what we refer to as reality. So it seems to me that this model creates a bigger mess because you have nothing to explain consciousness with and anything that you did explain it with would be completely outside of experience and therefore is completely unknowable. I don't think consciousness is that simple or that fundamental.
_I don't understand your statement that consciousness is connected to the idea that everything is motion. The only way I can understand it is that everything is motion and therefore everything is an ultimate consequence of it, but you are trying to use it the other way around. You have consciousness first and then 'everything is motion' second.
_I also don't understand your statement that it's possible nothing exists outside of consciousness. Everything we know is experienced through consciousness, as you rightly say, but that does not mean or even hint that consciousness is primary. I think it is more productive to assume things exist without consciousness, in their own right, than to require something to experience those things before they are real. That is just a chicken and egg problem. A paradox.
_And it is quite easy to disprove it anyway. I have a consciousness which is completely separate from your consciousness which is completely separate from everyone else's consciousness. If nothing exists outside of consciousness, then how is it that an infinite number of consciousness's can exist? Not only can they exist but they can be created and destroyed. You would have to posit a single consciousness that is only apparently separate. A single consciousness that exists in the absence of reality as we know it. And since I know that I am conscious, then the rest of you are clearly a figment of my imagination and I am God affraid.
_The definition of consciousness: the state of being aware of and responsive to one's surroundings.
'the state' implies a machine to have a state.
'being aware of' implies input of some kind and the machine knowing about it.
'responsive to' implies being able to perform some action as a result of the input.
'one's surroundings' implies those surroundings exist outside of the machine, separate to it.
_I don't see how your usage of consciousness fits that definition. The machine, the surroundings and the input all have to exist before you can have consciousness.

_Post by LloydK on Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:43 pm
_As I said, everything is known only via consciousness. Without consciousness, nothing is known. Therefore, consciousness has to be considered and cannot be assumed away.
_Motion is an important aspect of consciousness, just as it is in conventional thinking about "physical reality". It's possible that the constituents of motion are the same in both consciousness and in observations of "physical reality".
_The boundaries of consciousness are not clear and they may be flexible. Consciousness seems to start small, grow and possibly die, or it may keep growing after "physical" death.
_There may be a universal consciousness which spawns individual conscious beings.
_I've been considering the possibility for a couple years or so that consciousness is composed partly of photons or something similar. But the most important constituent of consciousness seems to be caring and I think caring may be primary, while motion, i.e. the relation between space and time, is the universal material.
_Caring is what spurs our interest in learning etc.
_Rupert Sheldrake's theory may prove important eventually, i.e. the theory of "morphic fields" etc.

_Post by Nevyn on Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:53 pm
I don't have much time at the moment, but I wanted to point out one thing.
_There is a big difference between 'what is known' and 'what is'. Another way to say that is that there is a difference between 'knowing something' and the 'something' that you are knowing. The knowing relies on a consciousness, the something does not.
_You are using very spiritual or mystical ideas here. I have no problem trying to tie spiritual or mystical concepts to physical things or ideas, for example, I believe what is known as the human aura (or the aura of anything, really) is just the charge field of that entity. There is no reason this couldn't be used to gather information about that entity which gives a physical basis to aura reading and medical diagnostics based on it. But to try to explain reality based on consciousness is a very different thing.

_Post by LloydK on Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:26 pm
_ Nevyn said: There is a big difference between 'what is known' and 'what is'. Another way to say that is that there is a difference between 'knowing something' and the 'something' that you are knowing. The knowing relies on a consciousness, the something does not.
_You're assuming there IS something apart from consciousness, but that assumption seems to be untestable. We rely on consciousness to do all our thinking, reasoning and drawing conclusions. Thinking is one of the kinds of consciousness. Perception and emotion are the other two kinds (And there are 3 kinds of subconscious as well). Motion still seems to be key. I think we can prove that things exist outside our individual consciousnesses, but it's doubtful that it can be proved that those things are not parts of another consciousness. I almost want to not post this, because it may seem irrelevant, but I think it may be worth posting anyway, because this is basic truth that might prove to be worth consideration eventually.
_Speaking of spirit, some who've studied the paranormal show that there do seem to be nonmaterial intelligent beings which can be detected by psychics and by various instruments. I've seen some of the images and temperature readings and heard some recordings. Photons seem to be involved at least in the sensor readings. And consciousness seems to be there too. Spirit may not relate to virtual reality, but, if we seek truth, we surely need to be open to the possibility that physical "reality" is virtual, and maybe real as well. And that means that possibility should probably be tested by someone eventually, if possible. Spirit may be a route to testing it. There's a machine that can detect auras accurately now, I've read.

_Post by LongtimeAirman on Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:04 pm
_ Lloyd wrote:You're assuming there IS something apart from consciousness, but that assumption seems to be untestable. We rely on consciousness to do all our thinking, reasoning and drawing conclusions. Thinking is one of the kinds of consciousness. Perception and emotion are the other two kinds (And there are 3 kinds of subconscious as well). Motion still seems to be key. I think we can prove that things exist outside our individual consciousnesses, but it's doubtful that it can be proved that those things are not parts of another consciousness. I almost want to not post this, because it may seem irrelevant, but I think it may be worth posting anyway, because this is basic truth that might prove to be worth consideration eventually.
_Lloyd, the only reason I would not want to post something like this is due to the likely misunderstanding of your spiritual belief. Your next three words are "Speaking of spirit". With three kinds of this and another three kinds of that, you offer this "basic truth for consideration". If I understand correctly, to say that everything occurs through consciousness initially sounds like a claim of extreme anthropomorphic power - the universe only exists in my head. I'll grant you that Spirituality may be a third of my being, but in my opinion, the universe is complete without us. If "Consciousness" is a will to live, shared by all the creatures, and perhaps the Earth itself as a sentient being, then 'll respect your viewpoint. But generally, people like us (scientifically minded) try to plumb the depth of reality, to understand the operations and interactions of all bodies. Physics is usually separated from spirituality. For many of us, spirituality begins where physics leaves off. Is the photon conscious? Where does consciousness begin?
_I'll point out the obvious. That here too, Miles is redefining things. His work not only extends physics, it redefines reality, and even spirituality. I see the legitimization of astrology. Nevyn can see the aura as a humans' charge field (I don't think Gandhi would disagree). Cr6 bathes in superconducting currents. We may be able to see spirit walkers. Through his Expanding Theory of Gravity, I can believe that a dust mote, I hold in the palm of my hand is an entire galaxy, just a few years younger than our own (h/t to MIB).
_I'm not making any claims; This is a time for understanding and objectivity. Marvelous really.

_Post by Nevyn on Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:15 pm
_I don't think the photon is conscious, but I have often wondered if we could consider electrons and protons, maybe even atoms and molecules, to be alive.
_One definition of life:
Life is a characteristic distinguishing physical entities having signaling and self-sustaining processes from those that do not, either because such functions have ceased (death), or because they lack such functions and are classified as inanimate.
_Particles that emit the charge field have a signaling mechanism and could be said to be self-sustaining because the charge field sustains their spins. Some may not like that use of self-sustaining because the charge field is not really part of the particle but I question anything that is said to be self-sustaining because if you remove the charge field, I am confident that they will not sustain themselves any longer. Everything relies on the charge field (or it is the charge field) whether we know it or not.
_It is a bit of a stretch and not very consequential so I leave it as something to think about every now and again.

_Postby Cr6 on Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:30 pm
_It is kind of interesting how Lithium -- a 2 alpha field (1 blue, 1 gray) has the Charge field ready for usage. The brain uses Phosphorous for energy and thought... and the charge field may work with these two (Phosophorus, Lithium) in the same way. They each have blue alphas with a single black alpha and can combine with sulphur:
----------------
_A bit dated and not that scientific but probably relative to "Conciousness":
_Chemistry of Man
http://calypso53.com/jensen/phosphorus.html
http://www.livestrong.com/article/372795-the-benefits-of-calcium-phosphate/
http://www.livestrong.com/article/454483-elevated-calcium-phosphate-symptoms/ -- it can be detrimental at high amounts
_Phosphorus plays an important role for all living organisms and is an essential nutrient element for plants and animals. It has a key position in the combustion processes of the cell, and in the total energy transfer of the plant. It is also a “building block” of the cell walls, the DNA, and all sorts of proteins and enzymes.
_Reasons You May Have a Phosphorus Deficiency
_If you think you are suffering from a phosphorus deficiency, there are a number of reasons why it could be happening. For instance, if you eat a lot of junk food as part of your diet, you could be susceptible to a phosphorus deficiency. Likewise, if you don't eat enough foods containing phosphorus or take a phosphorus supplement, you could be prone to phosphorus deficiency. If you're not getting enough magnesium in your diet, you actually might be getting enough phosphorus, but your body just may be having trouble absorbing it properly without enough magnesium. As always, consult your doctor if you feel that you are having trouble with your phosphorus levels.
----------------
_Phosphorus
_(Page 275) Phosphorus Has to do with Intelligence
Phosphorus is synonymous with intelligence-- the medium for coupling the soul with matter. It combines with sulphur in food form and with specific nerve and brain fats within the body.
_(Page 276) Sensory seats in the brain, nerve networks, sympathetic (autonomic) nervous system, nerves, ganglia in general and sensory nerves are under the influence of phosphorus. The reproductive organs and bone producing functions are favorably affected when phosphorus is supplied in proper quantities. The higher intellectual capacity depends on phosphorus--psychic perceptions, idealistic tendencies, humanitarianism, philanthropy, the subjective functions of the brain, physical brain sensations (especially taste and touch). The organic (food) form of phosphorus, sulphur and nerve fats vitalizes and regenerates brain and nerves. Phosphorus is a nerve and brain tonic.
_Thinking Consumes Phosphorus
_The "light bearer" (phosphorus) becomes the medium of the soul's expression through the brain faculties. But to get the evolved form necessary for the brain to assimilate, phosphorus must undergo transformations beginning in the mineral kingdom, moving from there to the soil by decay, then into seeds and grains, into animals, fish and birds, and ultimately into the human brain. Without phosphorus, we could not study, memorize, read, reason, create, visualize, comprehend. With each thought, phosphorus is used up; each activity of every brain and nerve cell requires phosphorus. The mental worker particularly needs phosphorus,..
_Thinking consumes phosphorus. The broken-down phosphate waste material from brain and bone catabolism must be eliminated by the liver. Tests have proven that after extreme mental exertion, there are greater quantities of phosphorus in the urin. This is a dramatic argument in favor of adeqate phosphorus in the diet.
_Brain Phosphorus and Bone Phosphorus Differ
_There is a distinction between the phosphorus needed for bones and that needed by the brain; they are vibrationally different, in that brain phosphorus is more highly evolved. Brain phosphorus comes from the animal kingdom (meat, fish, eggs and dairy products), and bone phosphorus is derived from the vegetable kingdom. Phosphorus is integral to bone formation and repair, and it also nourishes the brain and nerves. It increases the number of red blood corpuscles. It improves tissue nutrition in general. But its greatest function is in the brain and nervous system.
_Lack of Phosphorus Causes Serious Problems
_Without phosphorus,... Sterility is possible. The brain softens and decays. Pus is generated. Neuralgia develops. Intellect atrophies and vanishes. Children or anyone studying hard in school must have brain phosphorus in the daily diet.
_Phosphorus Needed for Lecithin Production in the Body
_Lecithin, which in its Greek form means egg yolk, is a complex fatty compound necessary in the human body. It is present chiefly in semen, bile, milk, nerve tissue, brain, white and red blood corpuscles, lymph and serous fluids, blood and pus....
_If the diet is deficient in vitamins, nerve fats, phosphorus, oxygen, sulphur and specific nerve
_(Page 277) salts, lecithin cannot be manufactured within the body; if this is the case, impotence, neuratrophia, brain decomposition, feeblemindedness, physical debility, suppuration and low nerve vitality are among the manifestations. If phosphorus is deficient, lecithin cannot be formed properly in the body
_(Page 277 continued)
_Phosphorus Vital for Brain and Nerves
_The nervous system that pervades the entire body is extremely important. If nutrition is poor, the blood cannot nourish the brain and nerves. When phosphorus is deficient in the diet and sufficient lecithin is not manufactured, the brain and nerves atrophy, the brain decays and phthisis and neurasthenia appear.
_Phosphorus' Role in Reproduction
_The egg youlk contains vitelline which is the creative principle. Vitelline is a nucleo-protein containing a good deal of phosphorus. Phosphorus is necessary for reproduction in man and animals and for their proper growth.
_Phosphorescence
_The fluorescent quality of phosphorus is vital to life forms...
_In man, the luminosity of phosphorus serves... to heighten his mental activity... It may be said that phosphorus holds the soul in the physical body, imprisons that life spark sometimes referred to as spirit. Phosphorescence is believed by some to be the "astral body" or the "aura".
_Phosphorus and ESP
_The properties of phosphorus implicate it in telephathy, ESP (extrasensory perception), dreams, wireless etheric communications, suggestive treatments, mediumship, psychogenesis, physical sense perception, sensory impulsion, obsession, delusion, hallucination, hypnotism, psychometry and other purported "strange phenomena."
_Calcium Phosphate Essential to the Body
_Calcium phosphate is essential to the body... ; it prevents excessive generation of pus and brain disintegration. Phosphorus is imperative for the brain, for all thought processes...
_SIGNS OF PHOSPHORUS EXCESS
_Optimism and Autosuggestion
_The individual suffering from phosphorus excess... His philosophy is that "thoughts are tings." Autosuggestion, mental healing and Christian Science are attractive to him. The power of _(Page 278) suggestion has great influence on his illneses, as well as on his health. Platitudes such as, "Believe in disease and it shall come to pass," and, "As you think, so you are." are expounded often. His optimism follows certain directions, such as those of speculative and idealistic philosophy. Speculation is constant; his imagination is prolific... The deluge of blood in the brain overstimulates the higher mental visualization centers. Optical illusions and visions are possible. Novels are of interest to him, as are fantastic tales of adventure, mystery, psychic phenomena, travel. His faith is in the infeasible and he dislikes everyday reality.
_Emotions are Volatile (Phosphorus Overconsumption)
_Phosphorus overconsumption affects the brain, personality and actions. Such an individual finds it easier to study at night between ten and three than dueing the day. He may be a sleepwalker--subjective mind alert while objective brain faculties are in slumber. Internal manifestations of phosohorus excess are many: brain and nerves may be feverish; the patient may feel a craving to know what the future holds, frequenting palm readers and psychics; he may entertain superiority feelings regarding his abilities, positions, genius; he may insist that he is influenced by invisible forces, receiving cosmic revelations--information from angels, space beings, saints and discarnate spirits--relevant to the code of ethics of the universe and the laws that govern the destiny of men. The manner is haughty and proud; emotions are volatile; thoughts and visualizations are vivid. Excitement causes faintness or weakness. Joy is ecstatic; laughter, excessive. The mind overworks, while will power, decision-making ability, practical judgement and concentration ability are feeble and faulty. Vigorous thoughts and emotions result in excessive heat production in the brain revealed by feverish forehead, chilled feet and hands, and inflamed nerves. Mental orientations are chaotic, instantaneous, immoderate and intermittent. Merriment, optimism, speculation, hope and confidence are exagerated. Stimulants are desired.


LloydK

Posts : 398
Join date : 2014-08-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum